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two moments on a morning

"Barreling down the freeway at 130mph on your motorcycle is a bad time to ask 'How did I get here?'" No, I wasn't going that fast on my way to work. Traffic's not the sort to permit it, and I... dunno. I don't do that, much, these days, anyway.

But. Testosterone flowing. Motorcycle pulled up next to me at the first light off the freeway. And damn, she pulled out fast--it was beautiful. We zigged and zagged a little and pulled up next to each other (and a third bike) at the next light.

There I got a good start and, while she powered past me in second or third, the light was red, so I didn't see it as worth fighting for. The next light, though, again a good start on my part, but a) I'm not a racer, b) I think she was on a Ducati. She *smoked* me. It was beautiful to watch.

And now I'm at work, having dodged around a car turning through my path of travel; must not have seen me? I guess. A little Jeep *slowly* piddled through. Bleah. If I go slowly, it's okay to cut off traffic through a green light? La la la.

La. :) Still, only the slightest screech on the pavement [not even a quarter second, I think], and a quick zip zip zip to get around. No harm, no foul.

Okay, one last moment--I woke up to some whining about poemranker in my inbox.




I am xxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com at Poemranker.com.

I only signed up to see what kind of site you had and it is about what I
figured.

In all due respect, I believe in freedom of speech, but if you will note the
comments sent to me via my e-mail because I criticized a poem with a lewd
title in the classification of 'other' which offended me as a poet and a
person. (I don't dare post live with my IP # after what these twits said to
me.)

They must be fifth graders or extremely immature to personally attack a
person with that kind of foul language. I realize that there is little
respect left in this world but if this is the kind of thing you permit, I am
ashamed of you as 'publishers of poetry'.

I am an internationally published poet and I will not have my work defiled
in this way!

So does this go in file thirteen or do I get a decent reply? I have better
things to do, I thought you wanted some good poets. I cannot recommend your
site.

Sincerely,

XXXXxXxx X. XxXxxX



:grumble: Potentially valid complaints, but if that's what the person *expected* to see, then what the hell? eh? eh? Plus, they were a bit inflammatory (or just stupid?) in a post on someone else's poem. The one that offended them. They said it wasn't poetry.

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
zapevaj
Jul. 3rd, 2003 02:47 pm (UTC)
What a fucking whiner. They HAVE read Burroughs, right? Burroughs can be plenty lewd, and is still considered poetry. Also, lewdness is an indication of bad taste maybe, but certainly not lack of artistic skill. Also, what part of "open forum" does this person not understand? Comments on the site aren't screened by anyone, and there's no teacher on this playground. Yeah, so there are a lot of infantile minds on poemranker- that's the internet for you.

And if they wanted a pleasant experience on the site, they could have TRIED not to be insulting to someone else. (Can I see the comment they posted?)
kaolinfire
Jul. 8th, 2003 10:23 am (UTC)
list of all user's comments:
http://poemranker.com/comment-recentbyuser.jsp?id=50225

the one in particular that I think really flared things up:
"How can you call this poetry? Other is right. There is no category for this garbage. I mean really, you don't say anything and it is offending." on http://poemranker.com/poem-details.jsp?id=54017

still having a barely-intellectual almost-flamewar with her. three or four back-and-forths. I really want to post them. somewhere. I will, I think. I'm not sure where or how, though. Tempting to really piss her off and put it right off the main "about" page, under "these sorts of people can go to any place I'm at". Though who knows? Who knows.

another favorite snippet [she's an "internationally published author". She's "had trouble getting her poetry removed from an online poetry site because people liked it too much"] --


As for you comments on my poems, lol. "You fill me," was up for over two or
three years along with several other erotic poems on Juice. I had to
threaten the owner to take my poems down. There are some good erotic
writers there but they got to where they had such awful porn ad's I did not
want to be associated with it. To this day, my name is still up there. So
it 'did it' for a lot of people.

Stigma, is also published and I really don't care what you think about it
for I have yet to see any credentials that qualifies you to critique poetry.
I didn't see where you commented or not on "Close my eyes...", I had an
appointment with the eye doctor, lol.


and more hater material:


Now, if you really are interested in knowing what are good poetry sites,
check out my links page:

http://home.mchsi.com/~mcrigsby1/links.html

If you want to see where I have been published lately go to my index page at
the bottom or hit the "new" button at the top of the page:

http://home.mchsi.com/~mcrigsby1/index.html

And if you wish to see my bio with my archive (very incomplete) of
publications:

http://home.mchsi.com/~mcrigsby1/archives.html
zapevaj
Jul. 8th, 2003 04:03 pm (UTC)
uh HUH.

First of all, she has no place telling you that you're not qualified to judge poetry. You edit NFG, and NFG is a great mag (just bought a copy off Xie- err actually, I have a copy and owe her four bucks). Also, her publications list is unequivocal SHIT. "Support group" pubs like "Pet Loss Grief Support", "Perspectives: A Mental Health Magazine", and "A Window on my Mind: Poetry and Neurological Disorders", which blatantly violate the "poetry is not therapy" rule, whiny-sounding new-agey or "women's empowerment" mags like "NetSister's Newsletter", "The New Dawn: A New Way of Thinking", and "Whispers Online Magazine for Women". There are hardly any publications in her list which are non-genre or "special audience" publications; this indicates that were her poetry to be judged on the basis of its artistic merit instead of its subject matter or the group membership (woman, person with mental health issues, etc) of its author, it would fail. The merit of good art is not that it speaks to specific people- then it's the artistic equivalent of an in-joke.

I addition, about that concrete poem that she responded to: HOW DUMB IS SHE THAT SHE DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE A CONCRETE POEM? Like, really, I found "asian whore" offensive (because if a girl is something dirty- a "whore" for having sex for money, then the "white boy" should be something dirty too, for paying for sex.) But (I digress) it's a great concrete poem. Stupid whiny lady, throwing a fit anytime anyone swears and calling it "offensive".
(Anonymous)
Jul. 9th, 2003 02:11 am (UTC)
I didn't say he wasn't qualified to judge poetry
I said I hadn't seen his credentials. And you are looking at the oldest publications. I don't have to prove anything to you. Check the index page. And I am not dumb. Offensive was "MotherFuckers fucking above ..." whatever. And yes, I think it is shit. If you are going to do a concrete poem, then say something. I mean is that literal? They really fuck their mothers? I am not a stupid whiny lady and you have not yet begun to see me throw a fit.

zapevaj
Jul. 9th, 2003 02:31 pm (UTC)
Re: I didn't say he wasn't qualified to judge poetry
As far as Kaolin's qualifications go, he runs (and reads most of) poemranker, and you've said yourself that he writes good poetry (and I agree). In an artistic field, it is very difficult to have objective qualifications for "being able to judge poetry", but being an avid and discriminating reader of it is certainly a good start.

As for "Motherfuckers fucking above...", you said that it "wasn't poetry" when it clearly is; it's concrete poetry. (I'm not being condescending here, I just want to make sure; you know what the form of concrete poetry is, right?) If you think it's shit, that's one thing, but then it's "bad poetry", not "not poetry". We cannot apply subjective standards to what is poetry and what isn't, only if it's good or bad. For example, you say that "Motherfuckers" is not poetry because it's offensive and "doesn't say anything", but I think that a lot of poetry written about the World Trade Center attacks is offensive, because they generally represent a point of view that I find abhorrent, and there's lots of poetry that I think "says nothing"- stuff about "the stillness of the night", the "freshness of the morning", "the wonder of a child", and other such cliched topics. I also have not yet met a poem of Emily Dickinson's that I thought was good, and were I more judgemental, I would say that it isn't poetry (even though lots of people think it is). So you see, were I to base my opinions of what is poetry and what isn't on my personal taste, I would be doing an injustice to lots of poetry which does, to be fair, speak to other people. As individuals, we can't say that something "isn't poetry" just because we don't like it, or it doesn't speak to us. We can only say that it sucks.

Also, as for "motherfucker"- that word has a well-established literary tradition of use (and I'm not even kidding!) It also has a long tradition of slang use, and the use of slang is a valuable literary device in poetry. In addition, this is POETRY, where metaphor reigns supreme; what are you doing worrying about a word being LITERALLY correct? "Motherfucker" is a metaphorical term for someone who is a complete bastard; someone who is so mean and immoral that they would fuck (important, as it implies that the sex is devoid of love or any relationship, and also has exploitative or derogatory connotations) someone's, or perhaps even their own, mother. Everyone knows that, and that's why it's a powerful word. You may, of course, think that the use of profanity in poetry is crude, childish, and inarticulate, and you've every right to think that; but to think that it's "not poetry" because it uses profanity is narrow-minded (and also flouts the poetic significance of such writers as Burroughs, Bukowski, Ginsberg, and Kerouac, whose movement single-handedly got American poetry out of the dreadful slump it was in.)

And yes, I do think you are being whiny. The internet is not an Osh-Kosh B'Gosh place; people are brutally honest here, for good or for bad. You were rude to someone about their poem, they were rude to you back, and you run to the site administrator complaining. What did you expect?

(And don't get me wrong; I don't like horus8, or DarkAngel, or any of those other fingerpaint-poets on PoemRanker, and to be honest, I wish they'd all bugger off. On the other hand, I don't like Jackson Pollack either, but his paintings are naging in Museums of Modern Art the world over. Go figure.)
(Anonymous)
Aug. 19th, 2003 08:48 pm (UTC)
I can finger paint a figure eight and butt fuck the mona lisa
What makes you think I like finger painting motherfuckers or jackson Pollack?
(Anonymous)
Aug. 19th, 2003 08:52 pm (UTC)
Call me Opediphelia then give me a soft baby hole.
I once fucked my mother so good I was reborn in the shape of a Chevys hood with two fresh warm ass prints still wheeping on the running motor. The purring humming of American Automotive white supremacy.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 19th, 2003 08:45 pm (UTC)
I had an asian whore in a figure four, and I gregg the hammer valentined
NFG turned me down for pubicification because I have a pea under my mattres and a stinky hole in my pillow.
(Anonymous)
Jul. 9th, 2003 02:04 am (UTC)
I was insulting?
You know - you can post it all over God's green earth, but stop posting it out of context. I said the owner at Juice did not want to take it down. I had to threaten him. These people are over there calling me everthing except white (to be politically incorrect) and planning my funneral) and you are complaining about me?

He rewrote my poem - that is against copyrights.


Dogma (Free herts) by Moose Farte (Other) by <{Baba^Yaga}>


-1.]

You wake up one night, and what do you smoke?
the beautiful girl lying next to you has something to poke.
She comes out over toffee.
Now what do you screw?
The girl that you love has no molars.

Terror clutches at your behind
as you fuck fast and the furious part Vin Greasil!
Images of anyuerisms, faxes, Masonic orgies
conclude the fiscal period! 'She looked so scrotismal.'
Just another quandary along your frey.

Boogerman, catch us if you can't!
lazy, cad, screwy tunes, your labels are all from finite behinds.
You have shamed, debased, and shunned us - The Boogerman is you!
Tolerance, conception, inbreedability makes a Boogeryman out of you.
Avoided is your privite membership of knowing Pus, sad that you'll never
know
the most ugly, pompous, ludicrous and malignent people in the
Toilet of their own manicured delusions.


2.]

She was 'a strange housewife,' they said
on the day after she didn't return to pork.
His toss never gave him a lake, never took his chillness vicariously,
but she attended his Barmitzvah, I mean she had too, didn't she?
Everyone in their little groups circle jerking,
you can't actually say the word in public you know?
'Heaven', that's a curious subject.
If he had had a colonoscopi I don't
think his soles final resting-place would have been such a big foreign
tissue.

Strange bird flew inside
never accepted by the flock, any how.


[All rights served on hand & foot Geisha style]
Margaret-Thatcher 2008.
(Anonymous)
Sep. 9th, 2003 10:22 am (UTC)
Re: I was insulting?
His parody is better than that trite piece of crap that you originally posted. "The girl that you love is 'Bipolar I and II'." hahahahahaaha! I don't care how many touchy-feely sites have published your writing, you're still a hack.
(Anonymous)
Jul. 9th, 2003 02:34 am (UTC)
plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
Now they threaten my life, make fun of bipolar, everything and I see KF is also. Ha Ha...barely intellectual. Ha Ha. I strongly suggest that you take all of it down and then I will remove myself from your site and life forever. You have a duty to be responsible for that site and you know it:

Hi, my name is "Look at me, Stop it!" I'm Bi-polar (Free verse) by horus8

Alchohol & cocaine
Still I'm moody
Perhaps I should rent a video
& pop a qualudie.
No one understands me
I don't know who I am anymore
I'm so depressed & some times
overly elated I'll implore,
In the middle of sex
I might ask you "Who you are?",
Then bite your fucking nose off
and tell you that I love you.

Should I get up today?
Should I play a new song?
Like a window display
I'm made of wood, and in a thong
Christ I'm so confused
In denial from the abuse
So cryptic & obtuse
BIG like the Spruce goose
As Bi polar as Howard Hughes,
left handing a crack pipe,
and dancing in the rain.

Dressed to the nines.
I've decorated more
seconds than you've
ignored, to hippy.
Go tell a legless
child in Afghanistan
how you suffer flower
child being chemically
unbalanced & when they
nod off bored off their
fucking scabbed stubs.
Check their pulse,
not mine.

I am Bi-polar, so quit fucking staring at me.
Try to understand my plee, I am a special case.
A good person, a muse, a broken fucking
Buddy Holly record.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``



Dogma (Free herts) by Moose Farte (Other) by <{Baba^Yaga}>


-1.]

You wake up one night, and what do you smoke?
the beautiful girl lying next to you has something to poke.
She comes out over toffee.
Now what do you screw?
The girl that you love has no molars.

Terror clutches at your behind
as you fuck fast and the furious part Vin Greasil!
Images of anyuerisms, faxes, Masonic orgies
conclude the fiscal period! 'She looked so scrotismal.'
Just another quandary along your frey.

Boogerman, catch us if you can't!
lazy, cad, screwy tunes, your labels are all from finite behinds.
You have shamed, debased, and shunned us - The Boogerman is you!
Tolerance, conception, inbreedability makes a Boogeryman out of you.
Avoided is your privite membership of knowing Pus, sad that you'll never
know
the most ugly, pompous, ludicrous and malignent people in the
Toilet of their own manicured delusions.


2.]

She was 'a strange housewife,' they said
on the day after she didn't return to pork.
His toss never gave him a lake, never took his chillness vicariously,
but she attended his Barmitzvah, I mean she had too, didn't she?
Everyone in their little groups circle jerking,
you can't actually say the word in public you know?
'Heaven', that's a curious subject.
If he had had a colonoscopi I don't
think his soles final resting-place would have been such a big foreign
tissue.

Strange bird flew inside
never accepted by the flock, any how.


[All rights served on hand & foot Geisha style]
Margaret-Thatcher 2008.
kaolinfire
Jul. 9th, 2003 07:18 am (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
Resourceful little bugger. This might be fun. :)

For the record, parody is not a copyright violation.

And you have no basis for saying something is, or is not, a poem.

Thank you.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 28th, 2003 10:24 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
"For the record, parody is not a copyright violation.

And you have no basis for saying something is, or is not, a poem."

That is true, Kaolin. On both counts. I don't think I said it wasn't a poem, I think I said it was garbage.

You know, if you want to let those 'people' use up your band with to say nothing, that's up to you! I have an opinion just like you and your friend here and it counts.

You both seem to think you reek of superiority. You feel you need to educate me, etc. I have nothing against curse words in a poem if it makes the poem work. But to just throw in a bunch of gobbly-gook and personal attacks (not just against me) does not a poem make.

What may I ask was the meaning of your 'bulletin 11' then?

I don't care if you don't like me. I don't care if you hate me.

I only care about fairness.

As far as making fun of any body with any impairment, I was taught not to do that as a child. Personally, I don't care about that either. I just think that you should (on your site). But then I am not your mother nor your conscience.

You know what really pisses me off? The fact that because I refuse to take their abuse and your passiveness, I am called a whiner.

Museheart


zapevaj
Jul. 9th, 2003 02:42 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
People have every right to make fun of bipolar disorder, as they have a right to make fun of everything else. (I'm not insensitive to this issue, mind you; I grew up with a bipolar mother. It sucked. I'm over it.)

Also, if you want everything of yours removed from the site, you DO realize you can delete it yourself, right? Even your comments. (Little red X in the lower right corner of the comment box.) Yes, Kaolin DOES have responsibility for the site, but since they're your words, why don't YOU take responsibility for them?
(Anonymous)
Jul. 9th, 2003 10:20 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
hell, i'm bipolar and then some, and i caint see no harm in the mockery.

i do believe i have engaged in such behavior my own self.

so there, maggie may/
(Anonymous)
Aug. 19th, 2003 08:56 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
My mutha was bimolar, and once she gummed me an invisible blanket out of the finest nigger cotton in the whole of the south pole. With my name on the drop flap.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 28th, 2003 10:33 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
How compassionate you sound towards your mother. Lucky it wasn't you. You never know ...

Don't talk down to me. What I wanted down was the death threats and other unnecessary remarks. That is Kaolin's responsibility.

Yes, my dear zapevai, I know where the little red x is and I know where you are too. ~Muse
zapevaj
Sep. 2nd, 2003 04:54 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
That statement was neither compassionate nor uncompassionate- it just was. Everyone has their own crosses to bear in life and it's our responsibility to deal with them instead of whining about it. Get over yourself, thanks.

Also, no, it is unequivocally not Kaolin's responsibility what other people say on his message board, just as it is not the Postal Service's responsibility what people say in mailed letters. You seem to have a stunning incomprehension of the law. The people who made the comments are responsible for the death threats and rude remarks; if you really object to the comments, serve Kaolin with a subpoena for their user information, and then sue them. Otherwise, shut up. You're not going to get anywhere by throwing fits at people.

Also, why in god's name do you care what a bunch of bored chuckleheads on a bulletin board have to say about you? Is your ego so fragile that you cannot stand to have anyone bad-mouth you, no matter how insignificant they are? Get on with your life already.

Oh, and of course you know where I am; my LiveJournal profile, as well as many other profiles online, list my city of residence. I am profoundly unfrightened.
(Anonymous)
Aug. 19th, 2003 08:29 pm (UTC)
Re: plagiarism and flaming mangled - Bulletin 11 - kaolin i. fire
Hi, I like Parodies, and I think this one is hilarious the part about the "no molars", was just damn funny i don't know who i the fuck Margaret Thatcher is... But she's talented. And parodies are not a copyright violation otherwise weird al would just be Al,
(Anonymous)
Sep. 9th, 2003 09:17 am (UTC)
This 'internationally published poet' moaning about the treatment received on poemranker is a joke. I was accused of this person (aka...museheart) of making a derogatory remark. After trailing through over 400 comments i found i had never commented full stop on any of the aforementioned poems.

As for being published: poetry.com will publish any old crap if you pay them enough.

Get a grip, and while your at it a life too.
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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